That Washington
Last Night's Murray-Rossi Debate
Josh F. contributed to this live blog report of last night's debate.
Patty Murray and Dino Rossi have begun one of two debates they've agreed to in this election. Tonight, they're in Spokane at KSPS, public TV.
Rossi just made his opening statement: "We have uncontrolled spending, government controlled health care ... the problem with Washington is that they can't [admit when they're wrong]. The extreme partisanship in Washington, D.C. has really taken us off course and taken us down the wrong path."
Murray's opening statement: "This state is my family. My family's hurting. And that's why I'm working so hard ... to create jobs and get you back on track again... I'll take on even the most powerful to make sure you have a voice at the table""
First question from Jim Camden of the Spokesman-Review: How long should the US stay in Afghanistan?
Rossi goes first. Before 9/11, there were terrorist training camps all over Afghanistan---"people who want to kill you, your children, and your grandchildren. We can't let that happen." Troops have only been there for a couple of months in full force." I agree with Obama's choice of General [David] Petraeus. [This is a slight dig at Murray, who did not support Petraeus during the Iraq surge]. I don't agree with having a date certain for withdrawal. I think what they're going to do is hide up in the caves until we leave … I think we'll just end up with more terrorist training camps … I want to give General Petraeus a chance to make this [war] work."
Murray responds by arguing that Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai isn't a "willing partner," and that Rossi supports extending the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy at a time when Afghanistan is costing the US $30 billion a year. "We owe it to [soldiers in Afghanistan] to know how long they're going to be there and how much more sacrifice they're going to have to give … I don't believe we have a willing partner in President Karzai that we can count on … One of the reasons America's in trouble today is that we went to two wars without a way to pay for it." And, she pointed out again, Rossi supports the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.
In response to how they will create jobs, Murray says she has supported investments (AKA the stimulus) that have created thousands of jobs in Washington State. "My job is to make sure that your job is secure."
Rossi's response: Murray supports high taxes on business, and the jobs she wants to create are only "temporary government jobs. We need entrepreneurs to create jobs."
"When [businesses are] successful, you don't want to punish them like Sen. Murray wants to, with high tax rates."
Rossi dodges a question about stimulus funding for cleanup at the Hanford Nuclear Reservation, responding by suggesting that federal employees should get no raises for a year, and that the federal government should "only hir[e] back one person for every two who leave."
Murray responded: "I didn't hear an answer. We have a moral and a legal obligation in this country to clean up the nuclear waste ... Hanford Nuclear Reservation is part of our defense … we cannot afford to have that nuclear waste seeping towards the [Columbia] River."
"Maybe he doesn't know this, but there are almost 3,000 people funded by that stimulus cleaning up Hanford Nuclear Reservation right now."
Now they've turned to health care. Rossi is claiming that the health-care bill---which he wants to repeal---will take $500 billion away from Medicare and amount to a $500 million tax increase; he also claims individual health-care costs will increase 30 to 80 percent.
In response to that rather credulous claim, Murray calls health-care reform "a step in the right direction that will give you control of your health care instead of an insurance company." And keeping the focus on the insurance companies, she added: “The only group of people that health care in this county was working for was our health insurance companies. Every family, every business, every community was struggling with double-digit increases.”
Wow. Rossi just claimed that not extending the tax cuts would hurt small businesses, accusing Murray of "class warfare."
"We have to help small businesses be successful, and unfortunately, Sen. Murray doesn't understand that." According to a primer published in August in the Washington Post , this claim is bunk. "Less than 2 percent of tax returns reporting small-business income are filed by taxpayers in the top two income brackets -- individuals earning more than about $170,000 a year and families earning more than about $210,000 a year," the Post wrote.
Ouch. Murray kills it on a question about Don't Ask Don't Tell. "I am a sponsor of the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell. I've talked to so many men and women who've … served their country honorable and they know that everybody who wants to give back to their country by serving in the military ought to be able to do it Major [Margaret] Witt [the lesbian Air Force major who won the recent victory on DADT] is a hero."
And she concluded: "I don't know how you look someone in the eye and tell them after they've served...that all of the sudden they're a second-class citizen." Gays and lesbians should be able to serve "like anybody else."
Rossi's rather limp response: We need to wait for the results of a survey of military men and women. "I want to see what the commanders, but also the military men and women, have to say about this … and thoroughly investigate this before we make a decision. ... We have to make sure that it actually works and makes sense."
On illegal immigration, Rossi suggests that the US build "a tall fence with a high gate, and that means a physical barrier, because we've got to know who's coming to America"---particularly whether immigrants have criminal backgrounds. He also says that he's against amnesty, prompting Murray to point out--in a reference to a story PubliCola broke earlier this year---that Rossi actually voted for legislation as a state senator that would have allowed children of non-citizen migrant workers to be considered state residents for college tuition purposes.
Murray said she supports creating a legal path to citizenship, particularly for children who come to the US at a young age (in fact, she's a sponsor of the DREAM Act that would do just that). "We need to make sure that the young people who come here at an early age and go to our schools and get good grades have a place to go."
Rossi complained that he wasn't able to get college grants for his kids because he makes too much money. (!!) Then he calls Murray "an 18-year incumbent who 's desperate for six more years."
(He also just praised Murray's work on behalf of veterans, which seems like a tactical mistake to me. It's what she's known for and it only reinforces her all-star image with the troops.)
In response to a question about negative ads, Murray quickly gravitated to the point that the Citizens United ruling has opened the door to unfettered corporate spending on attack ads. Trying to refute Murray's pitch for the DISCLOSE Act—legislation that would make corporations disclose when they fund campaign ads—Rossi said it should be disclosed that after voting for Wall Street reform, she got $500,000 from banks (an odd point given that Wall Street was against the reform bill anyway). But the real problem is: Rossi's $500,000 figure is the total she's gotten over her 18-year career.
During this election, banks have actually given her less than Rossi: $1,250 total from two JPMorgan employees and $1250 total from employees at Bank of America.
She has also, as we’ve reported, taken about $4,000 in donations from Wall Street lobbyists this cycle.
Rossi got $134,000 after a Wall Street fundraiser thrown by hedge fund manager Paul Singer.
Here's a report we did on all this.
The final question is about whether Airbus is getting unfair subsidies that give it an advantage over Boeing in D.C. Rossi points to an alleged $150 million tax increase Boeing will pay due to health care reform, plus "card-check" legislation that makes it easier for workers there to unionize.
Murray says eliminating the Airbus subsidy is "exactly what I've been fighting for."
Closing statements: Rossi will change the tenor in Washington; Murray won't make changes that make things worse, like repealing Wall Street reform, preserving the Bush tax cuts, and "going back to the policies that got us into this mess," including entering two wars we couldn't pay for.
Editorializing here: My takeaway, 0.7 seconds after the whirlwind debate ended, is that Murray killed it. Rossi seemed flustered, unprepared (seriously? You don't have any answer on Hanford?) and even nervous, stumbling over his answers, ignoring questions, and repeating standard Republican speaking points. In contrast, Murray was polished, sharp, and specific---on every issue from DADT to health care reform to illegal immigration to the stimulus, you knew exactly where she stands. An impressive performance.
Patty Murray and Dino Rossi have begun one of two debates they've agreed to in this election. Tonight, they're in Spokane at KSPS, public TV.
Rossi just made his opening statement: "We have uncontrolled spending, government controlled health care ... the problem with Washington is that they can't [admit when they're wrong]. The extreme partisanship in Washington, D.C. has really taken us off course and taken us down the wrong path."
Murray's opening statement: "This state is my family. My family's hurting. And that's why I'm working so hard ... to create jobs and get you back on track again... I'll take on even the most powerful to make sure you have a voice at the table""
First question from Jim Camden of the Spokesman-Review: How long should the US stay in Afghanistan?
Rossi goes first. Before 9/11, there were terrorist training camps all over Afghanistan---"people who want to kill you, your children, and your grandchildren. We can't let that happen." Troops have only been there for a couple of months in full force." I agree with Obama's choice of General [David] Petraeus. [This is a slight dig at Murray, who did not support Petraeus during the Iraq surge]. I don't agree with having a date certain for withdrawal. I think what they're going to do is hide up in the caves until we leave … I think we'll just end up with more terrorist training camps … I want to give General Petraeus a chance to make this [war] work."
Murray responds by arguing that Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai isn't a "willing partner," and that Rossi supports extending the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy at a time when Afghanistan is costing the US $30 billion a year. "We owe it to [soldiers in Afghanistan] to know how long they're going to be there and how much more sacrifice they're going to have to give … I don't believe we have a willing partner in President Karzai that we can count on … One of the reasons America's in trouble today is that we went to two wars without a way to pay for it." And, she pointed out again, Rossi supports the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.
In response to how they will create jobs, Murray says she has supported investments (AKA the stimulus) that have created thousands of jobs in Washington State. "My job is to make sure that your job is secure."
Rossi's response: Murray supports high taxes on business, and the jobs she wants to create are only "temporary government jobs. We need entrepreneurs to create jobs."
"When [businesses are] successful, you don't want to punish them like Sen. Murray wants to, with high tax rates."
Rossi dodges a question about stimulus funding for cleanup at the Hanford Nuclear Reservation, responding by suggesting that federal employees should get no raises for a year, and that the federal government should "only hir[e] back one person for every two who leave."
Murray responded: "I didn't hear an answer. We have a moral and a legal obligation in this country to clean up the nuclear waste ... Hanford Nuclear Reservation is part of our defense … we cannot afford to have that nuclear waste seeping towards the [Columbia] River."
"Maybe he doesn't know this, but there are almost 3,000 people funded by that stimulus cleaning up Hanford Nuclear Reservation right now."
Now they've turned to health care. Rossi is claiming that the health-care bill---which he wants to repeal---will take $500 billion away from Medicare and amount to a $500 million tax increase; he also claims individual health-care costs will increase 30 to 80 percent.
In response to that rather credulous claim, Murray calls health-care reform "a step in the right direction that will give you control of your health care instead of an insurance company." And keeping the focus on the insurance companies, she added: “The only group of people that health care in this county was working for was our health insurance companies. Every family, every business, every community was struggling with double-digit increases.”
Wow. Rossi just claimed that not extending the tax cuts would hurt small businesses, accusing Murray of "class warfare."
"We have to help small businesses be successful, and unfortunately, Sen. Murray doesn't understand that." According to a primer published in August in the Washington Post , this claim is bunk. "Less than 2 percent of tax returns reporting small-business income are filed by taxpayers in the top two income brackets -- individuals earning more than about $170,000 a year and families earning more than about $210,000 a year," the Post wrote.
Ouch. Murray kills it on a question about Don't Ask Don't Tell. "I am a sponsor of the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell. I've talked to so many men and women who've … served their country honorable and they know that everybody who wants to give back to their country by serving in the military ought to be able to do it Major [Margaret] Witt [the lesbian Air Force major who won the recent victory on DADT] is a hero."
And she concluded: "I don't know how you look someone in the eye and tell them after they've served...that all of the sudden they're a second-class citizen." Gays and lesbians should be able to serve "like anybody else."
Rossi's rather limp response: We need to wait for the results of a survey of military men and women. "I want to see what the commanders, but also the military men and women, have to say about this … and thoroughly investigate this before we make a decision. ... We have to make sure that it actually works and makes sense."
On illegal immigration, Rossi suggests that the US build "a tall fence with a high gate, and that means a physical barrier, because we've got to know who's coming to America"---particularly whether immigrants have criminal backgrounds. He also says that he's against amnesty, prompting Murray to point out--in a reference to a story PubliCola broke earlier this year---that Rossi actually voted for legislation as a state senator that would have allowed children of non-citizen migrant workers to be considered state residents for college tuition purposes.
Murray said she supports creating a legal path to citizenship, particularly for children who come to the US at a young age (in fact, she's a sponsor of the DREAM Act that would do just that). "We need to make sure that the young people who come here at an early age and go to our schools and get good grades have a place to go."
Rossi complained that he wasn't able to get college grants for his kids because he makes too much money. (!!) Then he calls Murray "an 18-year incumbent who 's desperate for six more years."
(He also just praised Murray's work on behalf of veterans, which seems like a tactical mistake to me. It's what she's known for and it only reinforces her all-star image with the troops.)
In response to a question about negative ads, Murray quickly gravitated to the point that the Citizens United ruling has opened the door to unfettered corporate spending on attack ads. Trying to refute Murray's pitch for the DISCLOSE Act—legislation that would make corporations disclose when they fund campaign ads—Rossi said it should be disclosed that after voting for Wall Street reform, she got $500,000 from banks (an odd point given that Wall Street was against the reform bill anyway). But the real problem is: Rossi's $500,000 figure is the total she's gotten over her 18-year career.
During this election, banks have actually given her less than Rossi: $1,250 total from two JPMorgan employees and $1250 total from employees at Bank of America.
She has also, as we’ve reported, taken about $4,000 in donations from Wall Street lobbyists this cycle.
Rossi got $134,000 after a Wall Street fundraiser thrown by hedge fund manager Paul Singer.
Here's a report we did on all this.
The final question is about whether Airbus is getting unfair subsidies that give it an advantage over Boeing in D.C. Rossi points to an alleged $150 million tax increase Boeing will pay due to health care reform, plus "card-check" legislation that makes it easier for workers there to unionize.
Murray says eliminating the Airbus subsidy is "exactly what I've been fighting for."
Closing statements: Rossi will change the tenor in Washington; Murray won't make changes that make things worse, like repealing Wall Street reform, preserving the Bush tax cuts, and "going back to the policies that got us into this mess," including entering two wars we couldn't pay for.
Editorializing here: My takeaway, 0.7 seconds after the whirlwind debate ended, is that Murray killed it. Rossi seemed flustered, unprepared (seriously? You don't have any answer on Hanford?) and even nervous, stumbling over his answers, ignoring questions, and repeating standard Republican speaking points. In contrast, Murray was polished, sharp, and specific---on every issue from DADT to health care reform to illegal immigration to the stimulus, you knew exactly where she stands. An impressive performance.
