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Position 4: Sally Bagshaw vs. David Bloom
Last week, we had all the candidates for city council and city attorney in to the Cola offices for an endorsement interview. We’re publishing edited and condensed transcripts of those interview in the runup to our endorsements on Monday.
PubliCola: David, your supporters have argued that we need another voice representing ordinary working people on the council, now that Peter Steinbrueck is gone. But we already have Nick Licata representing that point of view. Do we really need another Nick Licata on the council? And how would you get anything accomplished as a bloc of two on an eight-member city council?
David Bloom: It's two Nicks or eight corporate liberals. We’re just trying to redress the imbalances here.
PubliCola: Explain what you mean by "corporate liberal," and tell us why you think Sally fits that description.
Bloom: It’s the downtown business establishment with a patina of liberalism. Basically, it's anyone who backs the agenda of the downtown business community, the [Downtown Seattle Association] agenda, the Chamber [of Commerce]’s agenda of investing in big downtown projects like the huge developments in South Lake Union and the deep-bore tunnel [on the waterfront]. Sally has the endorsement of Alki [the Chamber's political arm] and the Board of Realtors and the DSA. She has 80 donors who have maxed out who completely represent the downtown establishment.
PubliCola: Sally, how do you respond to that?
Sally Bagshaw: It makes me laugh, the idea that I am the establishment. I worked for government entities for 31 years. It isn’t like I’m part of the downtown legal structure. I live downtown. Thirty percent of people down here are in subsidized housing. I walk the talk… He lives in Laurelhurst. It strikes me as the pot calling the kettle black. It seems like a thinly veiled statement that I can be bought.
PubliCola: David, you’ve talked a lot about creating 5,000 new units of affordable housing above and beyond the housing levy that's on the ballot in November, but how in the world can the city afford that in the current budget situation? I know you're going to say that not building Mercer will save $300 million, but we can’t just take money away from Mercer and put it into housing.
Bloom: Let's talk about hosing issues. I've been promoting the goal of 5000 units of low-income housing, but I've also been promoting one for one replacement of housing that is demolished, as well as the need for inclusionary zoning [requiring a certain number of affordable units in every development]. Sally has been lukewarm on one for one replacement. She has not embraced it. And she talks about the need for incentive zoning, which is a very minuscule step.
Now, building 5,000 units of low-income housing—that will be a huge undertaking. That’s more than double what we’re talking about doing with the housing levy. It’s a lot. But we are willing to tax ourselves for these huge projects. I understand we’re talking about different sources of money, but it’s ultimately all tax money. It’s decisions. Look at what we’re currently spending – $300 million for mercer, $200 million for a new city jail, $100 million a mile for light rail. This is a question of our priorities.
PubliCola: Sally, why do you not support David's proposal?
Bagshaw: Where are you going to put all the new people over the next ten years? It seems like every neighborhood is jostling [to accept new density]. There’s thousands planned in South Lake Union, thousands more in Roosevelt. There’s not a neighborhood in this entire town that wants that many new residents, and they really get squeamish when you start talking about 30 percent and below. ... They say, "We don't want these people here." I think it's got to be fair[ly distributed]. You can't just say we don't want these people here.
PubliCola: David, there's an eternal debate at city hall about how to define "low income"—30 percent of median, 60 percent of median, or 80 percent of median. How do you define it?
Bloom: Thirty percent. [The Seattle Displacement Coalition, of which Bloom is a co-founder] had to lobby the city council to make sure that a majority of the rental housing in the [housing] levy went to 30 percent and below. And we won. Sixty percent of rental production [in the levy] is at 30 percent or below and no more than 10 percent is between 60 and 80. When you allow up to 80 percent, what you’re really doing is creating housing at 80 percent. I live myself below 80 percent of median. I don’t need a subsidy. I rent a 2000-square-foot house in Laurelhurst that I share with a roommate.
PubliCola: David, you mentioned light rail as one of the projects that are costing the region a lot of money. But light rail has also done a lot as an economic development and land-use tool in the Rainier Valley Do you support light rail, or do you think it shouldn't have been built, and why?
Bloom: I’m not a supporter of light rail. I’m a strong supporter of buses. I think we get more transportation impact out of a flexible [bus-based] transit system. Even as we're adding light rail, we’re cutting bus service to the Rainier Valley, where light rail doesn't even serve most residents. We ought to be looking at light rail as a transportation system, not a land use decision. We need a regional transportation agency with regional transportation authority. Instead we get all these one-off projects—the viaduct, the [South Lake Union streetcar], light rail. Where’s the unified vision?
PubliCola: Sally, do you agree that we need to have a regional transportation authority?
Bagshaw: We definitely need to have the plan. I was [King County] Metro’s lawyer for many years before Metro merged with King County, and it had more authority than it does now. It was one of the best-functioning governments I’ve ever seen. Now there are seven different agencies with no central authority. I don’t think one massive agency is a panacea, but it might make sense to have a übermensch, somebody who was overseeing and coordinating all the various agencies.
I think our region made a huge mistake when we turned [the 2007 roads and transit initiative] down. It was really looking at, how does the whole region work? It wasn’t us vs. them. It was let’s build light rail, but include the highway connections to get people there.
PubliCola: Sally, you’ve been accused of not being a "real" Democrat because you’ve supported Republicans like Rob McKenna and Dan Satterberg in the past. In fact, that's cost you a lot of endorsements from district Democratic organizations. Leaving aside the question of whether those kind of litmus-test politics are fair, can you respond to that allegation?
Bagshaw: I have been a Democrat since I was 17. My first campaign was working for Sen. Frank Church of Idaho. My credentials are deep… But there’s a huge difference for lawyers [when endorsing]. When Rob McKenna was running against someone who was not qualified to be attorney general [Deborah Senn] as a lawyer, I supported him.
When Rob was a member of the King County Council, he was one of my clients, and when he won [the attorney general race], he asked me to be on his transition team specifically because I was a Democrat. And I said I’d be delighted.
PubliCola: But as you know, the attorney general's office can be a springboard for higher office. When Rob McKenna runs for governor, will you support him?
Bagshaw: I don't know.
PubliCola: David, you said at the CityClub debate the other night that you support “management compression.” What did you mean by that?
Bloom: Looking at departments that are top-heavy with too many managers, too many layers. It's a real problem. Not only does it cost a lot of money, it’s inefficient.
Bagshaw (to Bloom): David, do you have any management experience? Have you ever managed staff or overseen a budget before?
Bloom: Absolutely, I've overseen staff. Not as many as you, Sally, but I've never worked in government. We were dealing with budgets of several hundred thousand to $1 million. We were a nonprofit, so we weren't as big as city government.
But in a lot of ways, Sally, it doesn’t matter. We’re not running to be managers, we’re running to be leaders.
PubliCola: We get the political and philosophical differences between the two of you. But can you give us some specific examples of legislation you would push once you get into office?
Bloom: Well, I've talked about 5,000 units of low-income housing. That may not be sexy to you, but it is my top priority.
Besides the 5,000 units of housing, I would redirect money from mercer and put it into neighborhood infrastructure projects like 35th Ave. SW, 15th NE, and 24th Ave. going up Capitol Hill from Montlake. Those streets are completely deteriorating.
Third, I would like to pass a living wage ordinance. More than 140 cities have passed living wage laws, and I think it makes sense in Seattle.
Bagshaw: I was selected to be head of my office in '99 and I was told make these divisions work better and we changed a hierarchical structure to a wheel structure. Leadership is working with people and getting them to see where you want them to go.
[At this point, PubliCola stopped taking notes, telling Bagshaw]: I'm sorry, I'm not writing this down. You're boring us.
Bagshaw: Okay, you want specifics? I was chair of the Waterfront for All committee [as a board member for Allied Arts], pulling together business leaders and others. We did a series of charrettes on the viaduct replacement. And we weren't just saying we want a pretty waterfront. I was working with People for Puget Sound, the freight community, the [pro-surface/transit] folks.
And our report ended up being the centerpiece of the plan that went forward.
PubliCola: Where are you both on repealing the "head tax" [the $25-per-employee tax that pays for transportation—and exempts employees who don't drive to work alone]?
Bloom: I don’t support repealing the head tax. I think it has some value, and it’s really pretty modest in size [$5 million a year].
Bagshaw: I do support repealing it, mostly because it was a symbolic measure. There is the sense among businesses that they’re being taxed to death. What would you do in se Seattle?
PubliCola: Sally, you live downtown, and David, you live in Laurelhurst. What would you do to help folks in Southeast Seattle who feel they've been neglected by a City Council that lives in the wealthy parts of the city?
Bloom: That’s why I talk about how we shouldn't sacrifice bus service down there. We built this snazzy light rail line, but we’re neglecting the businesses. The city should be more to support all businesses down there, especially minority- and immigrant-owned businesses, which are critical. It’s an area of the city that is taken for granted. I am concerned about how development policies down there affect low-income people. That’s been my concern for 30 years.
Bagshaw: People who have been in the housing arena are all endorsing me. I think that’s because I have a different view than what David is pushing. When people who have been working with him for decades are coming to me and saying, I like him but I like you more, that’s telling. [Ed. Note: Both Bloom and Bagshaw have numerous endorsements from people in the housing community.]
People find it unforgiveable down there that they have been forgotten. We need more housing in Southeast Seattle ... and maybe a microloan program for businesses on Rainier [Ave. SE].
PubliCola: David, your supporters have argued that we need another voice representing ordinary working people on the council, now that Peter Steinbrueck is gone. But we already have Nick Licata representing that point of view. Do we really need another Nick Licata on the council? And how would you get anything accomplished as a bloc of two on an eight-member city council?
David Bloom: It's two Nicks or eight corporate liberals. We’re just trying to redress the imbalances here.
PubliCola: Explain what you mean by "corporate liberal," and tell us why you think Sally fits that description.
Bloom: It’s the downtown business establishment with a patina of liberalism. Basically, it's anyone who backs the agenda of the downtown business community, the [Downtown Seattle Association] agenda, the Chamber [of Commerce]’s agenda of investing in big downtown projects like the huge developments in South Lake Union and the deep-bore tunnel [on the waterfront]. Sally has the endorsement of Alki [the Chamber's political arm] and the Board of Realtors and the DSA. She has 80 donors who have maxed out who completely represent the downtown establishment.
PubliCola: Sally, how do you respond to that?
Sally Bagshaw: It makes me laugh, the idea that I am the establishment. I worked for government entities for 31 years. It isn’t like I’m part of the downtown legal structure. I live downtown. Thirty percent of people down here are in subsidized housing. I walk the talk… He lives in Laurelhurst. It strikes me as the pot calling the kettle black. It seems like a thinly veiled statement that I can be bought.
PubliCola: David, you’ve talked a lot about creating 5,000 new units of affordable housing above and beyond the housing levy that's on the ballot in November, but how in the world can the city afford that in the current budget situation? I know you're going to say that not building Mercer will save $300 million, but we can’t just take money away from Mercer and put it into housing.
Bloom: Let's talk about hosing issues. I've been promoting the goal of 5000 units of low-income housing, but I've also been promoting one for one replacement of housing that is demolished, as well as the need for inclusionary zoning [requiring a certain number of affordable units in every development]. Sally has been lukewarm on one for one replacement. She has not embraced it. And she talks about the need for incentive zoning, which is a very minuscule step.
Now, building 5,000 units of low-income housing—that will be a huge undertaking. That’s more than double what we’re talking about doing with the housing levy. It’s a lot. But we are willing to tax ourselves for these huge projects. I understand we’re talking about different sources of money, but it’s ultimately all tax money. It’s decisions. Look at what we’re currently spending – $300 million for mercer, $200 million for a new city jail, $100 million a mile for light rail. This is a question of our priorities.
PubliCola: Sally, why do you not support David's proposal?
Bagshaw: Where are you going to put all the new people over the next ten years? It seems like every neighborhood is jostling [to accept new density]. There’s thousands planned in South Lake Union, thousands more in Roosevelt. There’s not a neighborhood in this entire town that wants that many new residents, and they really get squeamish when you start talking about 30 percent and below. ... They say, "We don't want these people here." I think it's got to be fair[ly distributed]. You can't just say we don't want these people here.
PubliCola: David, there's an eternal debate at city hall about how to define "low income"—30 percent of median, 60 percent of median, or 80 percent of median. How do you define it?
Bloom: Thirty percent. [The Seattle Displacement Coalition, of which Bloom is a co-founder] had to lobby the city council to make sure that a majority of the rental housing in the [housing] levy went to 30 percent and below. And we won. Sixty percent of rental production [in the levy] is at 30 percent or below and no more than 10 percent is between 60 and 80. When you allow up to 80 percent, what you’re really doing is creating housing at 80 percent. I live myself below 80 percent of median. I don’t need a subsidy. I rent a 2000-square-foot house in Laurelhurst that I share with a roommate.
PubliCola: David, you mentioned light rail as one of the projects that are costing the region a lot of money. But light rail has also done a lot as an economic development and land-use tool in the Rainier Valley Do you support light rail, or do you think it shouldn't have been built, and why?
Bloom: I’m not a supporter of light rail. I’m a strong supporter of buses. I think we get more transportation impact out of a flexible [bus-based] transit system. Even as we're adding light rail, we’re cutting bus service to the Rainier Valley, where light rail doesn't even serve most residents. We ought to be looking at light rail as a transportation system, not a land use decision. We need a regional transportation agency with regional transportation authority. Instead we get all these one-off projects—the viaduct, the [South Lake Union streetcar], light rail. Where’s the unified vision?
PubliCola: Sally, do you agree that we need to have a regional transportation authority?
Bagshaw: We definitely need to have the plan. I was [King County] Metro’s lawyer for many years before Metro merged with King County, and it had more authority than it does now. It was one of the best-functioning governments I’ve ever seen. Now there are seven different agencies with no central authority. I don’t think one massive agency is a panacea, but it might make sense to have a übermensch, somebody who was overseeing and coordinating all the various agencies.
I think our region made a huge mistake when we turned [the 2007 roads and transit initiative] down. It was really looking at, how does the whole region work? It wasn’t us vs. them. It was let’s build light rail, but include the highway connections to get people there.
PubliCola: Sally, you’ve been accused of not being a "real" Democrat because you’ve supported Republicans like Rob McKenna and Dan Satterberg in the past. In fact, that's cost you a lot of endorsements from district Democratic organizations. Leaving aside the question of whether those kind of litmus-test politics are fair, can you respond to that allegation?
Bagshaw: I have been a Democrat since I was 17. My first campaign was working for Sen. Frank Church of Idaho. My credentials are deep… But there’s a huge difference for lawyers [when endorsing]. When Rob McKenna was running against someone who was not qualified to be attorney general [Deborah Senn] as a lawyer, I supported him.
When Rob was a member of the King County Council, he was one of my clients, and when he won [the attorney general race], he asked me to be on his transition team specifically because I was a Democrat. And I said I’d be delighted.
PubliCola: But as you know, the attorney general's office can be a springboard for higher office. When Rob McKenna runs for governor, will you support him?
Bagshaw: I don't know.
PubliCola: David, you said at the CityClub debate the other night that you support “management compression.” What did you mean by that?
Bloom: Looking at departments that are top-heavy with too many managers, too many layers. It's a real problem. Not only does it cost a lot of money, it’s inefficient.
Bagshaw (to Bloom): David, do you have any management experience? Have you ever managed staff or overseen a budget before?
Bloom: Absolutely, I've overseen staff. Not as many as you, Sally, but I've never worked in government. We were dealing with budgets of several hundred thousand to $1 million. We were a nonprofit, so we weren't as big as city government.
But in a lot of ways, Sally, it doesn’t matter. We’re not running to be managers, we’re running to be leaders.
PubliCola: We get the political and philosophical differences between the two of you. But can you give us some specific examples of legislation you would push once you get into office?
Bloom: Well, I've talked about 5,000 units of low-income housing. That may not be sexy to you, but it is my top priority.
Besides the 5,000 units of housing, I would redirect money from mercer and put it into neighborhood infrastructure projects like 35th Ave. SW, 15th NE, and 24th Ave. going up Capitol Hill from Montlake. Those streets are completely deteriorating.
Third, I would like to pass a living wage ordinance. More than 140 cities have passed living wage laws, and I think it makes sense in Seattle.
Bagshaw: I was selected to be head of my office in '99 and I was told make these divisions work better and we changed a hierarchical structure to a wheel structure. Leadership is working with people and getting them to see where you want them to go.
[At this point, PubliCola stopped taking notes, telling Bagshaw]: I'm sorry, I'm not writing this down. You're boring us.
Bagshaw: Okay, you want specifics? I was chair of the Waterfront for All committee [as a board member for Allied Arts], pulling together business leaders and others. We did a series of charrettes on the viaduct replacement. And we weren't just saying we want a pretty waterfront. I was working with People for Puget Sound, the freight community, the [pro-surface/transit] folks.
And our report ended up being the centerpiece of the plan that went forward.
PubliCola: Where are you both on repealing the "head tax" [the $25-per-employee tax that pays for transportation—and exempts employees who don't drive to work alone]?
Bloom: I don’t support repealing the head tax. I think it has some value, and it’s really pretty modest in size [$5 million a year].
Bagshaw: I do support repealing it, mostly because it was a symbolic measure. There is the sense among businesses that they’re being taxed to death. What would you do in se Seattle?
PubliCola: Sally, you live downtown, and David, you live in Laurelhurst. What would you do to help folks in Southeast Seattle who feel they've been neglected by a City Council that lives in the wealthy parts of the city?
Bloom: That’s why I talk about how we shouldn't sacrifice bus service down there. We built this snazzy light rail line, but we’re neglecting the businesses. The city should be more to support all businesses down there, especially minority- and immigrant-owned businesses, which are critical. It’s an area of the city that is taken for granted. I am concerned about how development policies down there affect low-income people. That’s been my concern for 30 years.
Bagshaw: People who have been in the housing arena are all endorsing me. I think that’s because I have a different view than what David is pushing. When people who have been working with him for decades are coming to me and saying, I like him but I like you more, that’s telling. [Ed. Note: Both Bloom and Bagshaw have numerous endorsements from people in the housing community.]
People find it unforgiveable down there that they have been forgotten. We need more housing in Southeast Seattle ... and maybe a microloan program for businesses on Rainier [Ave. SE].
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